Men on the Path to Love
Relationship coach Bill Simpson offers stories and wisdom, to inspire men be the best version of themselves in relationship and live the life they love.
Men on the Path to Love
BONUS: 12 Rules of Marriage: A Blueprint for Sustainable Love with Author and Coach Victor Guisfredi
In this BONUS episode, you'll hear my conversation with author and coach Victor Guisfredi, as he shares his journey from divorce and despair to writing two books and building a sustainable marriage grounded in self-awareness, commitment and trust. We talk about Victor's latest book 12 Rules of Marriage: A Blueprint for Sustainable Love. He shares real tools for what it means to sustain a long-lasting relationship.
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Welcome once again to Men on the Path to Love Victor. So good to see you again, man. Likewise, Bill. Thanks so much for having me. Yeah, I was I was checking out my episodes, and uh the last time we spoke was uh season two, and it was about a year and a half ago, and that's when you were talking about your book, No Grails Without Dragons. And here you are with the brand new book, Twelve Rules for Marriage, a blueprint for sustainable love. I love what you're doing. I'm on this love mission, and you're right there with me, man. And for those listeners who uh maybe not have heard your the previous episode, give us a little the story of your journey up to where you are now, what what led you to uh writing these books?
Victor Guisfredi:Well, I am a regular, everyday normal guy who has pursued a sustainable relationship ever since I'm a teenager. I've always had this craving for loving and being loved, and that took me along many different paths in life, which include entrepreneurship, uh playing music, uh competing in extreme sports. Uh, but it's it's a life-changing situation that happened in 2020, uh, when within a few months I got divorced, I became the full-time parent of my two kids, and
Victor Guisfredi:I also got laid off from a corporate job which I thought I was gonna have for many years. So within just a few months, my life flipped upside down, and uh until about about at about a year, I found myself at the very, very rock bottom and and and to the point that uh living was almost optional. And uh Carl Jung said once the the thought of suicide will get you through many dark nights because sometimes when you're in that spot where you have lost it all, including your hope and your and your vision for the future and even your your willingness to keep going, because I I by that time I had been divorced twice.
Victor Guisfredi:I had launched a few companies and and also lost a few companies, among other things, uh you start wondering, well, what's the point of it all, right? What what what what is it that we're here to do and and and why are we going to do that? And uh I had an option with with my life insurance policy. I think it was anywhere between 500,000 and a million. I forgot now. And that seemed pretty enticing because I said, well, maybe I can end my suffering. Maybe uh I was 30, I was 36 at the time. So I said, what am I looking forward to? Another 35, 40 years of this emotional hail. Um, I'm sort of dragging my kids down with this, and uh, and and maybe they can benefit from this payout. I stop suffering and the problem is solved.
Victor Guisfredi:But I found myself coming to find my purpose, and I I came to the conclusion that not only I will be doing a disservice to my children by by taking the the easy way out, but also they will have to go to a lot of the same situations and heartbreaks and suffering, sort of to end up at the same place. I say, well, why why not put what I've learned through a hard knocked life into a book and uh and then just share my knowledge with them?
Victor Guisfredi:Because after all, I think that we as a race, as a human race, that's how we evolve. We we learn from our ancestors what to do and what not to do, what the things that work and the things that don't. Um, and then just get on that path. So I wrote No Ground Without Dragons. It took me about a little over a year to write it and another few months to edit it because I did it all myself. And uh that was just my first step into uh this writing journey. And now uh now I just finished my new book, which is 12 rules for marriage.
Bill Simpson:Yeah, so it sounds like that your writing was like cathartic for you, like not only uh to get you out of that that dark place and also leaving a legacy for your kids and for the rest of us out here by writing that book.
Victor Guisfredi:Yeah. When when you hear an artist say that they put blood and tears into a piece of work, that's not a metaphor, that's a literal, yeah, uh a literal thing. And uh yes, I I got to heal, I got to see things from a different perspective, and uh and and I realized after I the first book was originally intended just for my kids, uh, because it's sort of it's a collection of the biggest lessons that I've learned. It doesn't really have uh a timeline or a theme, it's just hey, this is the the hardest lessons I've learned in life.
Victor Guisfredi:You know, don't make the same mistakes. Um but then people started showing interest, and uh the people around me said, hey, you know, this can help me too, and the word spread it out, and that's how we ended up being a published book. And and that's also what motivated me to write this new book because I finally, after so many years, and I'm talking about over two decades of obsessively researching into psychology and also making mistakes in real life, right? Because theory doesn't always translate into real life experience. Uh so so finally, two divorces, I got married again, and uh, and I'm at the place where I've always wanted to be, to be in that passionate and sustainable and loving relationship that I can say that I can probably happily die with and make it until death to us far.
Bill Simpson:Wow. You know, I'm listening to your story, Victor, and it just you know, I feel like we've just led these parallel lives. You know, I've I've been through three divorces and now almost 17 years into my current marriage, and it just keeps getting stronger and better and amazing. And that's my motivation too, you know, is to to share this with others to say, hey, this can work, you know, no matter how dark it gets, we can we can make these relationships work. So uh let's let's get into your book, uh 12 rules for marriage. And you know, this is really about sustaining the relationship. Take us through through this journey here.
Victor Guisfredi:Yeah, so 12 rules of marriage is born from the lessons that really made a drastic change in my relationships, uh, and and also the things that you can only learn from losing everything, right? Because I'm sure you've experienced it through your divorces. Once you when you're when you're before the divorce, the the person you are before the divorce thinks that the grass could be greener on the other side. Sometimes not, maybe maybe it's your partner who thinks the grass is going to be greener on the other side. But we're ignorant or blind to so many things that we don't expect. And once we cross that street, you're like, oh, this is what it's like to be divorced. It's not about the job, it's not about the money, it's about the long and lonely nights when you're going through your process of grief, and then you enter the negotiation phase with yourself, and it'd be one of the parts of the grief cycle.
Victor Guisfredi:When you're negotiating and you're saying, What would have I done different? Right? What you know, what what was trivial and that and contributed to the demise of my marriage and a mistake that I don't want to repeat. And um, and obviously there are a lot of things, but there are some major fundamentals for making a relationship work. And I came to realize that it's not so much about what we do externally or or our ideal relationship or what we think that the relationship should be, but what we do with ourselves. And getting to getting to know ourselves, uh, our subconscious processes, uh, in Jungian psychology will be the shadow, uh, and classical conditioning will be our triggers and responses.
Victor Guisfredi:And so 12 rules for marriage deals a lot with the things that we do that we're either not aware that we're doing, or that we're aware of them after the fact, and we don't know how to fix. And and and in it, you know, we talk about how to develop trust, how to develop commitment, what a commitment means, uh, how to tame your reactions, because I'm a product of trauma, and and I've been through a lot of trauma in my life in many different ways, and that shapes you as a human being. So then when you're exposed to certain triggers, you take these instant reactions, and those instant reactions are harmful, they're damaging. And when it comes to the person by your side, they're the ones that suffer the most because they see you all the time. So so 12 rules of marriage deals with the first step to to create that sustainable bond, and it's making sure that we are not our own worst enemies, right? That we are not the cause of our own pain.
Bill Simpson:Yeah, well, I think about my journey, and and when I'm talking to men, especially men who have been through divorce, and you know, and they're like, oh man, I just keep finding the same woman over and over again, you know. And I'm like, dude, you gotta look at yourself, man. Like, what are your patterns? What is it that you're bringing to the table or not? You know what I mean? So yeah, that self-awareness is so vital. It's crucial.
Victor Guisfredi:And it's crucial not just in relationships, but in life in general, and that is why it's the very first chapter of the book. Because if you're not going to read the whole thing and you're just gonna read the first chapter at least, that's your gateway into knowing what it is that you need to do to change your life. Unfortunately, uh it's it's easy to leave to live in a level of consciousness where we point the finger outwards and we blame destiny and we blame our luck. Uh but it's it's hard to take a look at ourselves and say, well, how am I sabotaging myself? How how am I an accomplice of the results that I don't want to face? And that's the beginning of that that the personal alchemy, right? You're turning that that lead into gold. You're you're lead because you sunk to the bottom of the ocean to see your own doings, and and then you have to transform yourself into a goal, into something valuable for yourself and then for others.
Bill Simpson:Well, and that's such an important first phase because it's not easy. You're not gonna just all right, now that I'm aware or you know, I'm looking at these patterns, okay, well, there's the awareness piece, but then you really have to do something about it, right? Right, right.
Victor Guisfredi:Yeah, no, there's there's practical things. Uh, I think uh somewhere in the book there's an analogy with having a car. And and let's say you have a car that overheats every two or three miles, and uh, you know, you you pull over to the side, you wait until the engine cools off, you put a little bit of water, and then you keep going. And sure, you put a a band-aid on the problem, but you haven't really solved the problem. And it's not until you become aware of exactly what the issue is with the car that you know what it is you need to do to fix it, and then make it make it last longer, or make it or make a longer trip, or get rid of the issue. And so so self-awareness is it's it's definitely the first step. There without self-awareness, I think that that there cannot be any sustainable change. You might achieve short-term change, but if you're not aware of the route and the role that you play in in your results, then it's it's almost impossible to have sustainable change.
Bill Simpson:Yeah, it's just gonna repeat the same pattern, same cycle got there.
Victor Guisfredi:Yeah, yeah, and it's a horrible place to be because you're trapped in these invisible walls that uh you know you're so close to them that you you can see them. Yeah, and and and the last place that we want to look is ourselves, but it that should be the first.
Bill Simpson:Exactly. Yeah. That's the only place to start, really. Yeah, self-awareness is the first step. Keep going.
Victor Guisfredi:There are some really important tenets, some of them, and the ones that I personally wrestle with the most is trust, uh, commitment, uh, infidelity, or the temptation of infidelity, uh triggers and and negative responses. That that was a big one because I learned to act in a self-defense manner ever since a very early age. You know, I'm not gonna go into details why, but it's it's due to abuse and and and having to learn how to survive in a in an antagonistic environment. And those things become a subconscious pattern, and and I re-enacted a lot of them in my relationships. But when I took a little bit of distance, I realized, oh, that that wasn't that big of a deal. I shouldn't know, acted like this or talk like this. Uh, there's violent communication, which is also a part of of that aggressiveness and defensiveness.
Victor Guisfredi:And um also just doing your your very best until the last minute, because I think the biggest lesson that I took from my divorces, and and and I I'm telling you, Bill, I've done a really um perhaps even unhealthy amount of psychological self-fleshing and and research, and I've tried to tie psychology with philosophy, with religion, just to see where that the the center line lies and how that can improve my relationships. And the one thing that I really took is that besides physical abuse, right, you can get through pretty much anything.
Victor Guisfredi:And um I'm not I'm not advocating for people to stay in harmful and toxic relationships because at the end of the day, it takes two people to make things work. But but uh but at least at the end of that process, whether you make it to the last day on earth with the person that you love uh or or you don't, and you you you separate any anywhere between now and then, it's much easier to walk that journey knowing that you did your best and uh and and carrying a smaller cross for your for your for failing to meet your standards, right? Like you you don't want to get there because you know, hey, I I I was uh I I cheated on my wife for so many years, or I was addicted to drugs, or I ignore her because I prefer to be on my phone or whatever, right?
Victor Guisfredi:Like you you want to know that you're that that that you did your very best to be the best human being that you can. And that's that's a that's two blessings hidden in one because one you have less to contend with after the process is over, and also you have improved the relationship with yourself and uh have become a more valuable part of society, whether it is for your your immediate environment, like your children or your community, the world, you know, maybe you write a book or you write a music album or you become a life coach, uh, or you have a podcast like yours, right? And and then if you still crave that love and you still crave that companionship and and that partner uh for the journey of life, which I think we're wired to do, you know. I don't think the the solo path is it's a real thing. I think even I think even samurai Jack fell in love at the end of the episodes, you know. Um then you're actually a better partner. You can show up better for that person, and that person will value you more, and and therefore you're also gonna be able to identify someone that it's along your wavelength.
Bill Simpson:Yeah, and and that's where I start with my relationship coaching is I I start with the individual, you know. I start with you, and you got to get you together and you feel good about you, and and like you said, you know, becoming your best self. Um, you got to do that first. And that in itself, you know, raises your confidence and builds trust in yourself and having the strength to be vulnerable and and the courage to to really you know express your feelings and that kind of thing. And then your frequency is is much higher at that point, and you're gonna attract the similar frequency. All you can have control over, of course, is your own stuff, and then you bring that best stuff to the relationship. And if you're both doing that, man, you know, I I just did a an episode about should I stay or should I go?
Victor Guisfredi:I yes, I saw that it was a great episode.
Bill Simpson:If you're both giving it your all, you know, I I say in the podcast that I had a therapist that said the the quickest way out of a relationship is to have both feet in, don't have one foot out the door. And when you get both give it your all, then you can walk away with your your head high and say, I did the best I could. Yet when you give it your all, you're giving a good chance of sustaining that relationship.
Victor Guisfredi:100%. And it's funny you mentioned because the chapter on commitment approaches it from that exact angle. Because people think, or people, well, let's let's not talk about people, uh let's talk about me. Uh, I used to think that commitment was not being unfaithful to your partner, right? I I thought that that's what commitment meant. Or uh to go to work every day and do whatever it takes to maintain the relationship. But commitment, it's so much deeper than that, and it starts at a at a thought level.
Victor Guisfredi:It starts at the thought level where you you make the choice to be with the person. You're not just with the person. You you it Alan Watts said uh freedom isn't free unless you're free to be bound. And and and so once you agree to be bound to someone, that's when things change because suddenly you don't have a million options, you don't have a million exit strategies, uh, you don't live with one eye open, you know that you're in it 100%, and and that puts you in a situation where you have to give it your best.
Bill Simpson:Yeah, and for me, you know, my fourth marriage, I feel more free in my life than I've ever felt because of that, the exact same thing you're saying, you know, and that's what it feels like to be in a sustainable relationship, that you're free to be completely who you are, and you're being loved in spite of it.
Victor Guisfredi:It's it's my it's it's really mind-boggling. That I I tell my wife all the time because they they bring out the best in you because they just don't expect that. You know, there's something to be said about that because that comes with emotional maturity and going through that stage of grief enough times to come to a conclusion of what is actually really important, right? And and once you get there, unfortunately, you don't get to that level of wisdom without having to lose things multiple times and and having to reinvent yourself and and and really knowing that when you lose absolutely everything, well, what's the most important thing?
Victor Guisfredi:So so that's that's uh that's a beautiful thing. And it really to be in a in a loving and and sustainable relationship, you know, when when you look at it that way, I think marriage is is probably the greatest gift that we can have because your spouse is gonna last you longer, hopefully, than your job, then your car, then your physical fitness, and your dreams, and your career, you know, then the guy nagging you to put those reports in by Friday. Uh and and once you realize that and you start, you know, not making it work, but putting in the work to actually build an emotional haven for you, then then it's it things just things just bloom and and you come out from a different standpoint. If you get a text message, or let's say you wake up and and you wake up 10 minutes too late and you're late for work and you freak out and you're in that state of mind that it's reactive and defensive, everything sucks. You know, traffic is worse, idiots are more stupid, and and right, and you get there and you think you're gonna lose your job and and and you're on edge the whole time, and then your results stem from your emotional state. If you're in a good place, if you have enough time, if you're if you're composed, if you have your coffee, your meditation, whatever you do, your results also show that. And and in relationships, if you don't work on yourself, if you don't know what kind of ripples you're causing in the lake of your life, then you're gonna keep creating the same ripples that you're trying to avoid. And and that's the problem.
Bill Simpson:And that's why being open to feedback is so important, you know, rather than getting defensive, no, I didn't, dah da. It's tell me more, tell me how I did that, because I don't want to do that to you, or you know, at least I understand where you're coming from, right?
Victor Guisfredi:No, you know, the uh I I think I heard Jordan Peterson uh he he talked to someone who I forgot what the guy the guy's name was, but he said that the the original meaning in Hebrew for the the word spouse or wife is a help against yourself. And when you look at it that way, you're like, okay, my wife is not nagging me, she's telling me something that I really need to know if I want to continue having a good time, right? If if if I want to improve, and and uh Gabor Mate said in the marriage, you find your biggest dream, but also your biggest nightmare. Um and that I think it's also a huge thing that you cannot get anywhere else but marriage because when your when your spouse brings out the worst in you, and and it's not because they you know that sounds like they're doing it on purpose, but they don't. Unfortunately, they get to know you so well and they share so many experiences with you that eventually your soft buttons get pressed. Right. And sometimes you forget that you have those until they come out, and that's the opportunity for you to turn into goal. That's the opportunity when you're oh, this is not cool. You know, I get to work on this now, and nobody else can make you see it but your wife or your husband or whoever you're with, you know.
Bill Simpson:Yeah, they can be our biggest teachers in that case if you're open to growing and and learning versus just staying where you are and not budging and see how far that takes you, you know.
Victor Guisfredi:It it won't. And and unfortunately, the only constant is change. So just being hard-headed and staying in a rut, it's just gonna keep you in the rut. It's not you have to be open-minded to change, and you have to welcome change, and you have to welcome feedback and uh understand that we are I don't know how many billions of people on this earth, and every person has their own unique point of view, and the more that you can see their point of view, you don't have to make it your own, but at least you can see it.
Bill Simpson:Yeah, we all want to be seen and heard versus right or wrong. It's just you know, this is my experience, or that's yeah, that's her experience. I understand her experience is not necessarily mine, yet I can understand it and I can, you know, acknowledge it.
Victor Guisfredi:That's right. Yeah, we want to be seen and heard, but we don't want to see and hear. And and the once you get past that little burden, then that's when you really start to improve your life, I think.
Bill Simpson:Yeah. And I think too, uh, a big part of of marriage is acceptance. And I talk often, you know, John Gottman talks about the the unsolvable problem. And what do you do with that? Well, you can accept it that it's an unsolvable problem. We're not gonna go anywhere with it, so it we can just put this under the table and accept it and move on, and and not have to have a perfect relationship exactly the way I want it. Or if that's enough, that particular problem is unsolvable, and well, I'm gonna walk away. But give it a chance, man.
Victor Guisfredi:Yeah, and and you know, I I love John Gottman, by the way. Yeah, um, it it also comes with a little bit of the Zen philosophy because something I learned with my kids. Right, my parents or my dad used to be like, oh, I'm being so patient with you, but you know, you're wearing my patient out, and and I'm getting on my last nerve. Right, and I inherited that until I came to realize that it's not other people that I'm being patient with, but myself. And and when I dug deeper, I realized that the gap between my expectation and my reality was my expectation.
Bill Simpson:Yeah. And those expectations lead to disappointment.
Victor Guisfredi:Uh uh 100% or or worse, right? It blows my mind to hear that 58% of the divorces in the United States are due to irreconcilable differences. I mean, two people cannot come to a middle ground or an agreement on so many things that they think it's better to destroy the future they envision and the dreams they envision, and they they will sometimes it takes people 20 years, I mean, to destroy a life and and and hurt their children because it's not just just you that's gonna go through the pain, your kids are gonna absorb a lot of that for their lifetime.
Bill Simpson:Absolutely. Yeah.
Victor Guisfredi:Uh, just because we are so married to our bad habits and to our expectations, and we can just let them go because you know, John Gottman said the unsolvable problem, but then I will challenge him and say, Well, why is it a problem? You know, just because you think it's a problem doesn't mean it's an actual problem. So if you're willing to change your belief about what it is, then you will no longer feel the emotions attached to it. If you don't think it's a problem anymore, you don't need the you don't feel the need to solve it.
Bill Simpson:Yeah, it's like reframing that it's a problem, reframing it to say, oh, this is an opportunity for us to grow, for us to move forward and see how we do with this, versus it's a problem, so therefore, you know, ir irreconcilable differences.
Victor Guisfredi:Yeah, and and the other thing is that we're really not wise enough. I mean, we we deem things to be a problem because we are afraid that taking that that path is gonna lead to somewhere we don't want to be. Right. And and and so we want to fix that before we get to the place that we fear to be. But number one, we unfortunately we get to the place we fear to be by trying to cling to these problems and solutions and fighting for them to be solved. And also, I don't think we're wise enough to know that that's an actual problem or or that that's going to lead to that very specific outcome that we fear. I not in a million years. If you told me at 10 years old, look, if you can tell me exactly where you're going to be when you're 41, I will give you a billion dollars. I I I did not know. I I I when I was 17, I said I'm never getting married, I'm never having kids, and here I am married three times. My kids are my thing, I love them.
Bill Simpson:I was never gonna get a divorce, and here I went through it three times.
Victor Guisfredi:Maybe maybe the lesson here is never say never.
Bill Simpson:Absolutely, man. Yeah. Well, so you know, I I'm thinking about your book, and is there any anything else in there that we need to know? I mean, I really appreciate your your format of your book, I wanted to say, because you you relate these stories, you make yourself so vulnerable in them, so that I think it it lowers the guard to say, hey, wow, this guy's really open and he shares his soul. And um, and that helps us to grow when we see others doing the same. It's kind of like you were saying, like being stuck in your familiar patterns. And and and I think uh the broad picture here is us as men being conditioned a certain way. So we're really gonna resist a lot of this stuff that you and I are talking about because oh man, that's too uncomfortable for me. I can't get can't do that.
Victor Guisfredi:Yeah, I put a lot of intent in the book. I didn't just just write it to pull out a book and and publish something out there. I I really dog into moments that I think many of us wrestle with as a as a collective, especially guys. Uh, because you're right, we we are conditioned. I I was conditioned to be the top. Office off the tough, not just by the parents and style that I was a product of, but also the environments that I lived, moving around the world so many times makes you grow a thicker skin. Getting divorced at 24, that that that really put a shell over me, you know. Um, but but there's just no there's no other way around it. And and so so I appreciate that you noticed that because I took it from from saying, hey, listen, we all suffer from this, right? And you can end up being really cool.
Victor Guisfredi:But we we it's it's a common thing that we contend with. And and and I'm not just saying this, the proof is it's it's everywhere you look, it's in it's it's in philosophy, it's in mythology, it's in cartoons. I mean, all of these monsters and enemies that we're fighting with, they all have a name and they all have a purpose, and these are many of the things that we wrestle with in marriage. Um but I also uh I try to give the reader first the the experience in the flesh, then the sort of the background process of of why and how and how I I came to accept the change because I opposed it. I I really did oppose it. It was always everybody else's fault until I realized that I was kept repeating the same mistake, and I'm like, the only constant is me. Oh yeah, it's so it's so it's so easy to be mad at everyone else and hold resentment and hate and be like, yeah, see. Um and then I gave the a practical science-based tool at the end, so you can actually try it for yourself, right?
Victor Guisfredi:I'm not I'm not I I I've read so many self-help books that they just sort of they they cover things at a very general level. I wanted to give Uber premium content, so the 10-15 bucks that you spend on on that, which I think is the price of a Starbucks Latin, you know, uh it really gives you a chance to to experience the state in which you are in and that I'm in, and that and then you can explain to anyone what it's like to be in a solid and stable relationship and how you can grow as a human being, and then how you can grow with everyone around you and spread that love. And you don't need to be weak about it, you can be strong and vulnerable and loving and firm, you know. Uh so yeah, so that's that's pretty much it. I just hope that the readers find it uh relatable and useful, and even if just one person it helps one person, my my goal has been accomplished.
Bill Simpson:I feel like we're on the same level there, because that's my whole intent too. It's this love mission I have, man, to spread more love in the world and can't we all just get along, right?
Victor Guisfredi:Listen, all the you you look at the really wise people and they'll tell you the same thing. I the salvation of men is through love by love. There's no way around it. There's just no way. I've been there, I've made the money, I had the luxury life, I had the lustful life, I had the travel life, I had the fame life, and the void in your heart is never fulfilled until you come back home and and you feel loved and you love someone else, and I think that's the greatest gift on earth.
Bill Simpson:Yeah, I feel you, good brother. Thank you so much, man. It's my pleasure. I wish you so much success with this book. Uh I'm gonna encourage all my listeners to to pick it up because it's some really great stories in there that they're relatable, and uh also, like you said, the the ways to to live and to embrace and embody what you're offering, not just fluff. It's it's real stuff. I encourage everyone to go for it. Thank you. So, for the listeners who want to get your book, uh, how do they go about doing that?
Victor Guisfredi:They can visit my website, victorjuicefreddy.com. Uh, I'm going to have uh the book released in the next few weeks. If a listener is interested in getting the book, but the book is not published yet, they can sign up for my newsletter and they'll be notified when the book is available.
Bill Simpson:Awesome. And I'll make sure those links are in the show notes as well.
Victor Guisfredi:Thank you. So a lot of years of research and thousands and thousands of dollars in seminars and this, this, and that, and there's just so many millions of things that don't work, and then the handful of the ones that do, they're in the book.
Bill Simpson:There you go. Awesome. All right, Victor, thank you so much for taking the time, and I wish you so much success. It's a pleasure, Will. Thanks for having me. And that will bring an end to this bonus episode of the Men on the Path to Love Podcast. Twelve Rules of Marriage: A Blueprint b S ustainable Love with Author and Coach Victor Guisfredi. I’m Bill Simpson your host, thanks for listening. And thanks again to Victor Guisfredi for sharing his wisdom with us. You can find the link to Victor’s website in the show notes. Make sure you check out the next episode of the Men on the Path to Love podcast, The Lonely Season: Navigating the Holidays In or Out of Relationship, episode. And until next time…keep your heart open and stay on the path to love.