BONUS: Conversation with Vulnerability Coach and author Ryan Kopyar

In this episode, you'll hear my conversation with Vulnerability Coach and author of the book Big Boys DO Cry  Ryan "The Life-Changer" Kopyar. We discuss the power of being vulnerable as a man, what that looks like, and so much more. Check out the BONUS episode Conversation with Vulnerability Coach Ryan Kopyar.

Check out Ryan's website where you can reach him and get your autographed copy of his book Big Boys DO Cry :  http://www.ryankopyarholistichealing.com/

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:18

And welcome to the land on the fast to love podcast. It's another bonus episode. A conversation with vulnerability coach and author of Ryan Cofield. I build something folks. I coach men who are struggling in relationships. Communicate effectively, build trust, and keep it intimacy so they can be the best version of themselves in relationships and live the life they like. In this bonus episode, you'll hear my conversation with Ryan Cochrane, who's a vulnerability coach and author of the book, Big Boy Do Cry, a man's guide to navigating emotions and showing up more vulnerable in relationships. So I encourage you to stay with me because you just might learn something. Welcome, Ryan, to Men on the Path to Love.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Hey, Bill, it's great to be with you. Thank you so much for allowing me to connect with you.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Man, when when I saw you were a vulnerability coach, I'm like, man, I gotta get this dude on because I talk a lot about vulnerability. And I I reference this guy I saw. He had this muscle shirt on, big guy like yourself. And on the front it said, vulnerability is the new sexy. And I was like, Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

So I gotta buy one of those. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Um, so my show is all about telling stories. And I'd like to start off before we get into all the specifics of what you do. Tell us your story, how you, you know, came from, you know, big boys don't cry to big boys do cry. Like, tell us your story, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

Yeah. So, you know, that there's there's a lot there. I'll try and condense it down to kind of what I started out with in the first chapter of the book, which is it's a series of rock bottom moments in my life in 2018. I had a wedding fall apart at the last minute. I lost a job, and I was involved in a very serious car accident where I was hit from behind going 40 miles an hour by an SUV. Um, and I was banged up. I was banged up mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually. And that then led me to the path of seeking out clinical mental health counseling. I had worked with a counselor when I was a teenager and a young boy, but had never really taken it that seriously. But now I really had some motivation because I was not living my best life at that point. And that led me into counseling, which led me into my first counselor. She was great. She helped me to understand my PTSD diagnosis. And then I eventually met a counselor named Billy, who, man, Billy and I just clicked right off the bat. And Billy did part hypnosis and part talk therapy together. And so that's kind of a unique combination. And it facilitated some amazing healing in my life. And Bill had got me to cry. It presented me with an environment where I could allow myself and give myself permission to cry. And Billy helped to facilitate that environment.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

You felt safe.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Yes. Yeah. You know, I felt I felt safe, not only in the context of Billy, but I felt safe within myself in the sense that it's like, yeah, man, you have been through a lot. And yes, it is okay to admit that, and it is okay to let that out. Um, so that then led me to Billy encouraging me to seek going back to school to be a counselor. And I graduated with a degree in criminal justice, worked in the physical health field, the health and wellness industry for over a decade. So to make that jump from health and wellness and psychology and things of that nature, then into the mental health where it was all head up, I was like, I don't know why I'm saying yes to this, but but I am. Billy made a couple of phone calls, and the next thing I know, I'm in the clinical mental health counseling master's program.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

Wow. So obviously you became so impassioned that you followed this even further.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Yeah. So during COVID, it kind of presented me with an opportunity to go all in on completed my master's in about two and a half years, and then was said, okay, where am I going to go from here? Do I want to open up my own private practice, get into community mental health? And I'm still an associate, so I still practice under a supervisor, but I have my own practice. And what I found was a lot of men were reaching out to me. And I work with men and women and some couples, but was really the men that would come to me and I did my best to provide an environment for them the way Billy did for me. And when I would see these men start to give themselves permission to cry and open up and be vulnerable with me, I saw just the incredible change and shift that would happen, not only with them in that moment, but also in their interpersonal relationships with their families and their kids and those that they love. And so I said, okay, now I got to figure out a way to scale this so that I can help more people, because you and I know we only have so much one-on-one time. So that's what then led me to write the book, Big Boys Do Cry.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

I had a similar journey where radio is my career for 35 years and dealing with all the pressures of it because it was a high-pressure morning show, and learning all these other mind-body stuff and went to therapy and dealing with anxiety and all these things. That was my catalyst to do all my trainings to become a mind-body educator, an integrative therapy practitioner. And I've been working out of a health clinic for the past almost nine years, and seeing so many women, mostly women in my clinical practice, hearing them say about their men, like, you know, they love these guys, but they just, you know, they just won't make themselves vulnerable. It's all about their ego and all this. And I would say, well, what if he would just say this, or what if he would do this? And they were like, oh man, that would make all the difference in the world. And I'm like, ding, okay, yes, we gotta educate these guys. So that's what men on the path to love is all about. And so it's that, you know, dealing with ourselves first and then becoming impassioned that we want to pay it forward and and share it with the rest of the world. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

And in that spirit, I want to be humble and vulnerable to say that, you know, leading up to that process of counseling with Billy, I had not cried uh more than one or two times, maybe three times, in about a period of 30 years.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Really?

SPEAKER_00 6:43

Right? Yeah. And and so I was very guarded, very unaware of the pain and trauma that I was was holding on to, and perhaps better said, very unaware of how I was numbing that pain with drugs and alcohol and partying and all of that, right? So when I have men come to me that that are struggling in that regard, I say, man, I'm right there with you. It took me 30 years to start the process, right? So I think I'm a living testament to say, number one, it's not too late, and number two, it's possible.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

Absolutely. And yeah, it's it's a process, it's an ongoing process. I'm still, after over 30 years of doing this, you know, is it's still, we still have to do it. We're still on the path. Um, and you mentioned that you know you hadn't cried very much in like a 30-year period. Were you like told big boys don't cry?

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Yeah, that's a that's a good question. You know, what I what I often say is, how many times for us men growing up as kids, did we have a male caretaker in our life come to us and say, Oh my gosh, Bill, you know, I just had such a great cry. And why don't you sit down with me? And I want to tell you all about this big cry I had. Um, I don't know about it for you for you or for some of the other listeners out there, but I never had a man in my life that ever sat down and spoke to me that way. Now, my papa did cry, my papa did cry, so I did get to see a little bit of that, but there was never an in-depth conversation about, hey, crying is okay. Here's how to process emotions, here's how to express emotions, right? So um, it's not that I didn't have some limited exposure to that, but what I definitely did not grow up with is any kind of real conversation about, hey, what emotions are you feeling? And here's how we can talk about them, and here's how we can process them.

SPEAKER_01 8:30

Yeah, I think about my own childhood where had experienced some loss within a year. I lost my uh my mother and my uh my brother, oldest brother, in the same year. And I ended up having to be had to parentify my father. He cried and he was sulking in his liquor and all that, and I had to be the one to comfort him. And who was there to let me have my? I didn't cry about my mom for I don't know, 15 years. I didn't cry about my brother. It was like I couldn't cry about it. I had to be there for my dad. And so there was that sign of it, but it was more of a pathetic cry to me, you know, versus really manning up and owning that I'm really hurting right now. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

Yeah, yeah, I appreciate your vulnerability to share that. That's interesting because I had kind of the opposite end of that when when my mother uh was raped and killed when she was eight months pregnant with my sister Megan in a tragic accident. And my father and I, I remember as a little boy sitting down at the kitchen table, dimly lit, right? And it was my dad and I. My dad worked so hard. And you know, he would work 12-hour days, pick me up, we'd grab some takeout food, and we'd sit there at the table. My dad didn't cry. I I can't say I have very many memories of my father crying, definitely not at least in that context. And now this is interesting. So I didn't see my dad cry. And so I think to some degree I didn't learn or understand that, hey, crying is a part of the grieving process and that's okay. But I guess in another way, I learned, Bill, how to sit in that pain. We sat in that pain together, and we didn't speak about the pain, and to some degree that was unhealthy, but to another degree, it helps me to do the work that I do now today because I can sit with people in their immense pain and let them know, hey, it's okay, we're gonna get through this, and I'm not afraid of it. I'll sit in it with you. And I think that that can help to provide them the courage to sit in it and face it as well.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

And again, it goes back to safety. You're you're creating that safe environment to let him know that he's really supported and that it's okay. Yes. You know, I'm I'm looking at your stature, you're a big guy. And I'm not such a big guy. You know, I find like when men see other big guys like athletes, you know, crying. You know, you I remember the player that had the heart attack on the football field, and these men are just sobbing. It kind of gives the man permission to cry when they see men like yourself, big men like that, crying. And and sometimes with someone like me, they're more they're a little bit more hesitant to do that because they don't see me that way. But again, it's me creating that safe environment and letting them know. And you know, I s they start off kind of guarded, and then when we're into it, they just it's all about feeling safe enough to do it, and they're not judged, and they let go. Yeah, that's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

Yeah, there's some interesting studies out there about uh they have studied the perception of men, uh, I think it was with firefighters, right? And and so the perception of these men crying, right, versus a perception of men maybe in another field that would not be seen quite as you know, male-dominant kind of alpha male. And I write about that in the book, right? It's interesting how when we see, you know, the Super Bowl, you've got the winners, they're crying and they're happy, and then you've got the losers, they're crying, they're sad, they're let down. You know, growing up, I never thought twice about that, right? I just thought, oh, they're they're crying. Yeah, okay, that makes sense. But if I was to see another friend uh cry, I'd be like, well, you know, this is before I went on my own healing journey. Well, uh, uh, uh, you know, I don't know, it makes me feel uncomfortable, right? And so uh yeah, I think you bring up a good point. The more that we can break down the stigma, regardless of of what we look like, we're all we're all men, we all put our pant legs on one leg at a time, right? But uh yeah, let's break out the stigma and say, yeah, I'm a big boy and I do cry.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

And you know, and frankly, vulnerability is a lot more than just crying. And that's one of my challenges in working with men and letting them know what vulnerability is all about. And yeah, it's it's you know, it's being open with your emotions and things like that. But I I think of I had a guy this week where he was like asked his wife, she was gone most of the day, and he goes, Where were you? And he put her under the hot seat. I said, Well, what if he had said something like, I really missed you today, and I was wondering, you know, where you were. Yeah. And he's like, That's vulnerable. I'm like, Yeah. And how many guys we don't, you know, it usually comes out, where were you? instead of I missed you today. You know, so it could be that simple.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's a great, very well said. You know, a lot of the work that I do with men is is helping them to understand how to get into to identify what those emotions are, right? Because okay, it comes out as anger, comes out as well, where were you, right? But underneath the surface, there is a missingness, a loneliness. But if there's so much chaos going on the side because we have unprocessed trauma, or maybe there's, I mean, I think we all have trauma to some degree, but let's put that aside just for a second. If we were never taught how to identify that feeling of loneliness or sadness, then how are we ever going to be able to even begin to identify to put it into such beautiful verbiage that you used, right? So uh I think there's multiple layers.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

Yeah, I mean, and if you don't have uh somebody to model that for you, because society and media and all that doesn't really show it very much at all. That's right. Or if they do show it, it's it's more the stereotypical boohoo cry, but not communicating in a vulnerable way.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

Yeah. Yeah. So so what are some ways that you work with men that to help them with their vulnerability?

SPEAKER_00 14:41

I think it ultimately comes down to first off, getting to whatever those blockages are there from being vulnerable, right? So what we've spoken about so far has been what I would kind of describe as the mask, right? So as men growing up, we saw our care, our male caretakers, and what were they like? How did they handle themselves? How did they carry themselves? Probably quite stoic, as we said before, probably not going to be sitting down with us and having a conversation about emotions. So that was not learned, right? So it's understanding, okay, it's okay to take off this mask. Or first off, have I been wearing a mask? Have I been wearing a mask of this very stoic man who can't show emotions? That's not safe, that would make me seen as weak, right? So we've got to take off the mask. That's number one. Then number two, we all have trauma. We've all experienced traumatic events in our life, whether it's big T trauma or little T trauma. So getting into that trauma to understand, hey, how has that caused some blockages for me in non-serving programming my mind, meaning the way that I think about and therefore view the world? And then how has that trauma programming of my mind blocked me from getting into my heart? Because it didn't feel safe. And so I think that goes to your point about the safety. So allowing them to get out of their head and into their heart, to let them know, hey, it's okay to do that. And then, yes, this is a safe space where you can just say it, just speak freely, no judgment, whatever it is that that you're thinking, just let it out. Because there's a process of getting through that non-serving program to get into the heart. And that is we got to lay it out there.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

And that's probably the hardest part, right? And once you do that, once you crack that egg, yeah, then you've got room to work with.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

Right, right. So once now that that's out, right now, now that we've got the the feelings out there on the table, now we get to get into really healing that trauma. And I believe that trauma is stored non-serving energy within the body. And as it's stored there for too long, it starts to create a fire, it starts to create chaos, like I was saying before, to be able to parse out, hey, what are my feelings from the past? Trauma, what are my feelings from right now? How do I separate the two? How do I release the stuff from the past which no longer serves me? So then we're gonna get into that trauma. We're gonna let that energy out so that the chaos and the internal tug of war can stop. And now we can start to really get clear on hey, what is it that I'm feeling? Then once we have a grasp on what is it that I'm really feeling, am I really angry that my wife was gone all day? Was I really feeling sad and lonely? Right. Then once we identify the sad and lonely, then we talk about, as you so beautifully said, how do I express that now in an emotionally regulated and healthy way?

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Yeah, and it's not saying I feel sad and I really miss you, and I get, you know, it's not that like self-pity kind of vulnerability, it's just what's real and speak your truth, you know. And you're gonna get a lot farther doing that.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

Yeah, and the truth is that that's what the women in our life want. And I think a lot of men feel like, oh, if I'm gonna say that, my my wife, my spouse, my partner, my girlfriend, she's gonna see me as weak. Right. No, she's not gonna see you as weak. She's actually begging for you to give her that glimpse inside of your heart. That's what the divine feminine is. It's loving, it's nurturing, it's caring, but it can't do that, right? If we as men are not putting it out there what it is that we need, right, and be open to it.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

So, what you're really saying is why it's so important to be vulnerable to create that connection, because without it, I was talking to uh another uh guest who was talking about like they're the women just like glaze over because they've asked and tried and trying to get what they want being heard and seen and have that empathy and not get it, and not get the vulnerability. Like, what's wrong? Nothing. There's something wrong, and you're not telling me. And they're just like, uh, they glaze over or they're just done with it. And it's hard, it's hard for a lot of guys to do it, and it's acknowledging that too, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Yeah, you know, again, it took me 30 years to begin to even start to crack the code to even be open to it. So is it hard? Yes. Is it challenging? Yes. Will it require some deep inward self-reflection? Yes, absolutely. All of that is true. That's why having a coach like yourself or a counselor or a therapist or whoever it may be, somebody to help guide you along the process, right? Like what I say to people is you're paying me for my experience because it took me 30 years. Now I help people so that they don't have to do it in 30 years, right? And in one, two, three, four sessions, we can have major, major breakthroughs, right? And it's like, oh wow. So I can take that 30 years and condense it down into three or four sessions. Now that's not always the case, right? But you know, into into three to four hours of of working with a professional. Oh wow, now we're talking. And the idea being that how do we do that proactively versus reactively when the relationship or the marriage is on the fritz and because of you know that lack of healthy communication.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Yeah, and just in those three or four hours or whatever, they get the theory, they get the awareness. And once you have the awareness, I always say you can't be unaware. It's like you know, I remember when I was going to therapy, I'm like, I kind of liked it when I was ignorant, you know, like I don't have to do anything, but once you have the awareness, then you got to do something, you know. That's right. You know, that three or four hours could be the catalyst that is the trajectory for the rest of your life. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Yeah, yeah. Vulnerability is a meeting ground for communication, right? And through communication comes deeper levels of connection, and through deeper levels of connection comes deeper levels of love, right? So it all starts with vulnerability, creating that beautiful meeting ground for communication.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

I had a one of my women clients was saying about her, she just broke up with her boyfriend, and it was kind of going back to what I was saying about glazing over. But he, you know, she kept telling him the things that she needed from him, and she was communicating in an appropriate way to get the best response out of him. He would act right when she started to pull away. And as soon as he got her back, he would be back to his old stuff. And he would go, he would say, Oh, I'm I love you and I miss you, and I'm gonna work really hard, and you know, all the things she wanted to hear enough for her to stay with this guy. But he really wasn't doing that, it was just all lip service because he didn't have that that sense of vulnerability, even though it came across as a vulnerability, right? That kind of that narcissist charm kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

Yeah, here's an unpopular opinion. Don't do it for anybody else, do it for you.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

Right? Don't do it for anybody else. Be the man you want to be for you. Don't do it only because you want to show up as a better person for your spouse or your partner. That's a great motivation, okay? But that's not sustainable. That's not long term. And to really make these changes requires such tremendous, and I don't mean to say this to scare people off, but it takes so much deep inner work. You've got to do it for you. Because if you're just doing it only for somebody else, that motivation is going to run out. There's going to be difficult times, right? Where you're like, oh well, they did this. So I was only doing this for them. So why continue? No, man. Do it for you. But you got to love yourself enough to know that you deserve to do it for you.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

Right. Yeah. I mean, it's because otherwise, you know, you have the potential of building up all this anger and resentment. And I did this for you. And you know, like, well, what about you, dude? You know? And that's what I say to be the best version of yourself for yourself and in relationship. Yeah, that that's the that's the key. Because if you're doing it for someone else, good luck. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

So anything else uh you got going on, Ryan, with the book? Do you want to go in any deeper with the book or anything else that you've got going on that you want to share?

SPEAKER_00 23:22

You know, I think the overall message uh to the men out there is it's okay to say you're struggling. It's okay to say, you know what, this is an area that I want to work in, but I have no idea where to start. This is an area that I put off for a long time. I'm feeling that there is enough discomfort in my life now where it's something that that I know that I want to start to dive into, but it seems scary. It seems overwhelming. It's okay to say that. That's the first step is to just give yourself permission, right? To say, hey, I'm overwhelmed and I could use some help. Because I think for for so many of us, we feel that to ask for help would be a sign of weakness. To admit that we don't have everything all figured out is no good. To admit that we're weak, to admit that we're anything less than perfect, you know, is oh my gosh, that's just not acceptable. So to all of the men out there, I just want to let you know, again, it took me a long time to come to this point, a long time. So I'm not here to judge anybody as to where they are in their journey or when they start or stop or whatever the case may be, but to let you know that healing is possible. And that all starts with saying, you know, I'm not okay, and that's okay, but I'm gonna get some help. So again, whether it's you know picking up a copy of my book, Big Boys Do Cry, or you know, connecting with a friend or a therapist or whoever it may be, it's okay to say that you're not okay and to ask for help. And by the way, guys, your partner who you think may judge you would be so, so touched and so heartfelt for you to say, hey, I just want to let you know I've been reflecting on things and I don't think I've been treating you the way that you deserve to be treated. I take accountability for that and I want to work on it. Maybe right now I don't know how, but I do know that it's something that I want to work on. And that would go so far.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Then you hear this big sigh of relief in the room, or maybe even some tears, because that's what they want to hear. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think too, Ryan, it's it's recognizing and letting the guys know that it is a process, you know. Maybe it's a three or four hour sessions or whatever to get started and understand that you're gonna slip back into an old pattern. And that's just what we what the brain does, is what we do as human beings. And again, going back to the awareness, okay, I took a step back, then I'm gonna take another step forward and keep going, versus you see, I am worthless, I can't do this stuff, you know, I'm not even gonna bother. No, you just keep doing it.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

That's right. Go. Uh, I'm I'm I'm still healing myself. I hope that I'm always healing because healing means growing, right? And and becoming a uh you know, a better version of myself, a more patient version of myself, a more loving version of myself. So I hope that I'm always healing, and that's an ongoing process. And that's uh again, it's not anything that you know you're doing wrong. It is uh uh, I think a healthy part of the human experience.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

Yeah, and the fact that you're trying, no matter what it is, whether it's reading your book, uh going online, reading articles, whatever, you know, that's a step. And just keep taking those steps and commit to it, and you'll get there. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

Failure is only measured by one timeline, and that is when we quit. Other than that, we're still learning.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

There you go. Well, that's a good place to wrap things up. Ryan, how can we get in touch with you? I'm gonna have your contact information in my show notes, but just tell the folks how they can reach you.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Sure. Okay. Uh, so my website is www.riancopyar, k o p-y-ar, holistichealing.com. So they can go on there. Um, they could get an autographed copy of my book on there, or if they want to order it on Amazon, Big Boys Do Cry, a man's guide to navigating emotions and showing up more vulnerable in relationships, they can grab a copy there as well.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Ryan, thanks so much, man. I really appreciate what you're doing out here. Uh, we need guys like you, and you're such an inspiration. And thanks so much for taking the time to be on the show. I wish you continued to talk with us. Oh, thank you so much, Cody, too. And that will wrap it up for this bonus episode of the Men on the Path to Love Podcast, a conversation with vulnerability coach Ryan Coke, who's also the author of Big Boy's Duke Project, a man's guide to navigating emotions and showing up more vulnerable in relationships. Thanks again, Ryan. I do appreciate you being on the show. You can find Ryan's contact information and how to get his book in the show notes. Now, if you have any ideas or topics for the show and issues you feel like you need help with in your relationship, you can reach out to me. Just go to my website at men on the path to love.com. You can also download my free cheat sheet while you're there. It's called Five Ways to Communicate Better in Relationship. Once again, you can find it at menonthepath to love.com. And hey, if you know someone you think might get something out of listening to this podcast, please share the link and share the love. And until next time, keep your heart open and stay on the path to love.